Running Things Her Way

Meeting Sallie Evans, it's hard not to feel her passion for life and her ice cream shop. But getting to know her, you can see her strength and her tenacity to create a life of her own making.

Stefanie: So go ahead and introduce yourself.

Sallie: Catherine Sallie Evans with Sallie's Small Batch Ice Creams.

Stefanie: What inspired you to start this ice cream shop? Did you always want do ice cream? Was this a childhood dream or was this something that kind of just came to you one day and you were, like, I'm going for it?

Sallie: Well, I wish I could say it was a childhood dream, cuz that would sound more magical. But I, well, I grew up on a dairy farm and so my whole family has been very involved with dairy cow's and dairy product. When my dad was growing up, my grandfather managed the dairy and they were, I think, top seven in the United States.

That was when dairy farms were much more prominent. There was a lot of them. So it was actually always a little dream my dad had but they were milking so many cows. They never had a chance after pasteurizing milk to make ice cream.

My mom is a special needs teacher and she was kind of ready to explore something different. I think she spent 25 years doing that. So my mom and dad actually came up with the idea and then I got kind of pulled into it.

I don't know if I should say pulled into it because I was excited about the possibilities. I'm a creative. My mind started going, well we could make this flavor, we could do that flavor. I love cooking and tweaking things and then just the idea of what that business would look like got exciting to me.

I started coming up with all these unique ideas and then it just never stopped and then it became Sally's and my dad has like nothing to do with it anymore. He'll run ice cream down to us cuz our production's in northern Indiana. But no, surprisingly it was never, I never once said, I'm going to go grow up and run an ice cream shop and make ice cream.

Stefanie: What did you think you were going to do?

Sallie: I always loved music. I had hoped that my brother and I, my brother sings with me or used to he's got an amazing voice, the hope was that we would make it big in music. We could have gone farther with it, I'm sure, but life happened and that didn't come to be the way it is.

But that's part of why we have music out here at our shop, at the ice cream shop. Our customers can enjoy music, but more or less it's a chance for me to get up and sing. So there are still those two loves together.

Stefanie: That's great. So do you feel like when you look back at your life that it led you here?

Sallie: Yeah. What's really neat about our business is it lets me be creative. I went to Purdue University and I was in marketing and communications. So I expected that I would've found some sort of desk job but I know that would not have been the best with the type of creative mind I have. So I think between my family's background in the dairy business and being entrepreneurs themselves that really led to what I'm doing.

Stefanie: So do you feel like even though you didn't use the marketing in traditional way, do you still feel like that was a path that got you to here?

Sallie: Oh, definitely.

Stefanie: So you're still using those skills?

Sallie: Oh yeah. I mean, every day, but even just simple things as writing facebook posts and wording them correctly and trying to keep an engagement with our audience. I mean that's all used every day. Business management, keeping the plate spinning all the time, and there's so many. Even with just a little ice cream shop, you would think it's so simple and sweet, but it's very challenging.

Stefanie: What do you find is the most challenging?

Sallie: That's a great question. There's a lot of challenging things. I'm a micromanager. I want everything to be perfect and we do a good job striving for that. But the most challenging thing I think is accepting that sometimes it's not going to be and I need to be okay with that. Because if I try to oversee everything, I won't be able to have a life outside of that. I need to be able to put trust in my employees and know that sometimes situations are going to arise that I cannot control and I have to be okay with that. That's been hard for me. Because if I try to micromanage everything, now I have a family, that takes away from my kids.

So it's a...it's a very fine balance, walking that tight rope of not controlling too much.

Stefanie: How do you feel like you've grown? Do you feel like this has grown you?

Sallie: Oh gosh. So many ways. So many ways. I have become a much better manager of time and responsibilities. My mom would probably laugh because I'm still a cluster but I'm a whole lot better than I was. I've always been pretty good at setting priorities and sticking to them but I've definitely found ways to manage and multitask. As a person, I feel like I've grown too. I'm not going to be able to make everyone happy. But one thing about the ice cream business, and I think one reason why I was passionate about changing my direction to the ice cream business and I was excited about it, is people are typically happy when they eat ice cream. It's a happy environment. But again, along the way there have been, areas that you hit like a little rollercoaster where you're not going to make everyone happy and I've grown to be okay with that and I've learned that as long as I gave it my best, that's all I can do.

Stefanie: Your shop, the one thing everybody does feel is joy. There's just this relaxed down home feeling that you get. There is just something different, you feel. Was that something that you had in mind when you were creating this?

Sallie: Yeah. I wanted a very unique experience, so not just excellent ice cream, but excellent customer service and just an excellent feeling. Our branding is very retro so we're like forties, fifties, sixties, inspired. We wanted that to go back to at least maybe the memories that your grandmother would've told you and like the innocence of those days and what you think about when they tell you about their upbringing and how simple things were.

So we really wanted to try to take it back to a simple happy time and customer service was excellent in that timeframe. I get my employees to try to have excellent customer service. Just be happy. I try to tell them, you're all a character representing this company. Little kids come up and they look up to you so take that with pride and know that you're doing something really special. So I'm glad that you feel that. Cause that's a big part of it.

Stefanie: Getting to know you, it feels like it was also a part of just who you are. Extended into the business.

Sallie: Yeah. Yeah, and I think a lot of my upbringing, I mean, I had a pretty simple upbringing. I was surrounded by the whole family working on the farm in that farm life.

I mean, it really did. It instills certain values that I don't think I would've gotten had I not been raised that way. So just, work ethic, a hard work ethic. I stay there until, I'm not there every night at close, but for example, just this past weekend I came in and helped the girls with dipping cuz they were slammed. We got done and they were all beat, ready to go home. So I sent 'em on home and I got down my hands and knees at 11 o'clock at night and scrubbed the floor for about 40 minutes. Because it needed it. But, as I was doing that, I was sitting there thinking about my grandfather and that's what he would've told me to do.

So that's just a part of who I am I guess. The work ethic and trying to be kind. Treating people the way you would wanna to be treated. I'm so happy that that reflects into our business. That's what makes me feel so good.

Stefanie: So it sounds like all of your past has led you to here.

Sallie: Yeah. I mean the product, like I said, customer service, the creativity, the singing. I mean, I'm so happy. One of the reasons why I love this little spot here in Madison is that we can do entertainment. I've not really had that at any of our other locations.

We had one shop, our original shop in Rochester, we had kind of an open grassy lawn. We would do maybe three or four shows a season out there, but it didn't really have a stage area. So, this spot allows me to do that, and so many more things that I haven't even done. I have all these ideas that I've always wanted to do with this business and I feel like I can do it here.

But it's funny that you say that. I had a friend who, we were at her house and she had a prophetat her house and they were praying over different people and he told me at that time that we were going to have this, I don't know if we were into the ice cream yet or not, it was within like that year.

But he said, you have been called to do this very unique thing that's gonna take all the things you're excited about as a kid and blend it into one and he said it's like a little kid with a coloring box and all the crayons, like all the colors, you're gonna be able to use them all and I always thought that was so neat.

I do feel that way about this business, that I'm able to use all the colors of my pencil box.

Stefanie: Do you feel like what you're doing right now is the most aligned for you and you can continue to grow from it?

Sallie: I do. I mean more right now than I've ever been. I feel really at peace with the balance of work and family time. I'm fulfilled when I come home from work, which is awesome.

I always knew that, outta high school, I knew I did not want to have a job that was average for me, and kinda like "Oh, here I go to work again. .." So I feel very blessed that that has come to be. That I'm excited to go to work each day. So I feel very fulfill. It's still chaos, but everything has kind of aligned and I'm very happy with how my business is right now.

Stefanie: So speaking of high school, you knew what you didn't want. Do you feel like you knew coming outta high school what you did want? Or do you feel like you had to discover that a little bit along the way?

Sallie: I had to discover that. It's funny because I did know I didn't want the same day to day thing and it was interesting because I kind of knew I wasn't going to do whatever I went to college for. I just, my family was very much, you graduate high school and you go to college.

I think things have changed a lot since then. I probably won't force my kids to go to college cuz there's so many other amazing jobs that don't require a college degree. But so, at that transition time of high school to college, I was not happy at college. I did not wanna be at college at all. It just was not my thing.

Maybe it's because in my heart I knew like, I'm not gonna go take a job where I have to go to an office every day. I just knew I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't be happy or fulfilled doing that. So anyway, I mean, I don't have to have a degree to do what I'm doing. It helped. My college years probably helped prep me a little bit.

But if I wouldn't have had my parents pushing me to go, I probably wouldn't have gone to school and I probably still would've found an entrepreneurial job anyway. I got it. I got there. But the whole time I kind of knew this isn't what I wanna be doing.

Stefanie: So where did it lead after that? Did you end up following your hearts desire or did you ended up going a different way?

Sallie: Actually, so I did not finish college. I went two years at Purdue and then I went to a year and a half online. Then that's when I knew I wanted to do something entrepreneurial.

Another little thing about myself is I'm an auctioneer and so growing up on a dairy farm I went to a lot of cattle auctions with my grandpa and so I went to auction school and I started using that a little bit for charity events in Chicago. But then I got a call, I was finishing my classes online. I'm so close. I'm still only like maybe a semester or two away.

Stefanie: I think you're doing ok.

Sallie: (Laughs) I think I'm doing ok. Now. . I thought before, "should I just try to finish it so I can have that degree?" And the other part of me just says no, there's no point. No. I don't think its for me. But I...so I went to auction school while I was still doing online college, trying to finish that. And then I got a call within that six months of auction school to go do a TV show. I didn't know if I told you that either. So I did a TV show for CNBC. It was their first reality series.

It was called Treasure Detectives, and I like, it's painful for me to go back and watch any episodes, so I don't tell many people. It was a fun experience. It was super neat. But that's actually what kind of led me to stop school. It was just too, I thought, I'm not gonna sit out there in Hollywood and do college courses.That's boring. I'm gonna live this up while I'm out here.

So that's kind of what stopped my college courses. But at that same time I start, I was already doing more music, , and the options, and I loved being my own boss. I just did, and I loved being able to create. So, I kind of knew the whole time, like, I'm not gonna use that degree anyway.

But Hollywood called...

Stefanie: How long did you spend out in California?

Sallie: I was only there eight months. So they put me up in a apartment and it was an amazing experience. It was really cool. I got to fly around the country for different episodes and whatnot and do the big premier in New York.

...and that really grew me as a person too. It taught me a lot of good things and it also taught me a lot of...it made me realize a lot of what I loved about being home and in this area. My roots. So that was an interesting time period.

Stefanie: What do you feel like you gained while being out there? You said coming back to your roots but what led you back to ice cream where you are now?

Sallie: The down home feel. You said it has a down home feeling coming into our shop. I missed that. I was only gone for eight months and I remember thinking I can get used to this for a few years, being out in California, and in that different little world. It was very different and I thought I could get used to this for a while and then when the show ended, I came back home.

It was supposed to get picked up a second season and I'm really glad it didn't because my life would be so different right now. Definitely ice cream wouldn't have happened...but I think being there made me realize how, at least for me, I feel fortunate to have grown up in the Midwest and on a dairy farm... those values that were instilled in me also really made me hold true to who I was when I was out there because there was a lot of things that happened or could have happened that my roots said, no, that's not okay. You need to stick to your guns and say no thank you in different situations. So growing up in the Midwest really made me who I am and then going out there and coming back home made me realize how much I love the down home, simple, clean, fun for families and we need more of. Especially the town we were in at that time, it was like, we need more fun, simple goodhearted down home entertainment for families.

That's kind of what I thought our ice cream business could be I do feel like people are entertained when they come. It's an experience. It's not just, let's go eat ice cream I wanted to make it an experience for people.

Stefanie: Everything that you said so far. You said this felt a little off. This wasn't quite right. When you came up with the idea for Sallie's did it just click, and you were just like, this is it.

Sallie: It did. Yeah. It really did. I still thought at the time there were going to be other avenues that I would be taking, and I guess in a sense I am. I'm still involved in music and whatnot, but it, it did, it felt right. It felt right because I could use a little bit of everything that I liked and make it my own. which was what made it so special it is still really cool to me. We created all of that.

Sometimes I'll come up to the shop and the lights are on and people are just happy and it's like, Wow, we did that. Like, how cool? And so many people get to appreciate it. So yeah, it did. It felt right. Especially what's so funny is, the simplest thing is the camper. I'm an odd person. I guess I'm a little eccentric-

Stefanie: Unique

Sallie: (Laughs) Yeah, unique. I'm mean for me it made total sense. I love everything vintage and I have a coined joke now. I like everything vintage down my husband, because he's twice my age. But anyway, so I identify I guess with older things. I grew up with an appreciation for antiques cuz my parents always loved the antiques and whatnot and so I love old cars. We had a vintage speed boat at one time before the ice cream shop. So when we were thinking about a storefront and what would be the best way to operate with the lowest overhead, because , ice cream is not a high ticket item. I can't charge $27 for a dinner. It's typically a $3 to $5 item and a lot of cost comes out of that. So we were trying to find the lowest overhead and I thought, ooh this is my chance to buy an old camper and get everybody on board.

It represents a part of me, I guess, cuz it is so unique and quirky. . and fun and creative and I feel like that's kind of the person I am. So my business model with my camper, I feel like represents, is really a good face of the business for representing me.

Stefanie: Now you're talking about feeling like it was okay to be quirky. Have you always felt like it was okay to be quirky and creative? Has that always been something that you've been supported in or do you feel like you've had times where you were just kind of being pulled away a little bit?

Sallie: Yeah, that's a fun question. I was, I don't wanna say the weird kid in school, because I was in a lot of different friend groups. I guess, from some girls in school, I would've been considered in the popular group but then I also hung out with everybody else. I just, I love people and I think that's another reason why I love this business is because I get to be around people all the time.

So I was always a little different. Especially because I accepted everybody and that wasn't cool in school. You stayed in your clique. But I didn't really have a clique. So if anything, my family was always very supportive. My mom, knew I was eccentric. She says, that I was always the one out chasing butterflies, doing my own thing and I still feel like I'm doing that. But if anything, it wasn't my family that would try to ground me and want me to be normal. It was those pressures in school, cuz I grew up in public school and I was always just a little bit out in my own field and didn't fit the mold of what your friend groups might want you to do.

But I never felt like I should. I didn't. I wish more people would realize that, that they don't need to try to mold into what everybody else wants them to be. But I think that's part of why I've always, I've truly always been a pretty happy person cuz I'm okay being myself. So I probably should attribute some of that to my upbringing.

I'm sure the way my mom and dad and my grandpa. My grandpa and grandma lived with us most of our lives. How they raised me, they must have said some pretty cool stuff that stuck with me to keep me okay with being my own person.

Stefanie: So you've always kind of felt like you've been in your own lane?

Sallie: Oh, I have yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were times, in high school I felt a little outcasted from friend groups. Just because I didn't try to fit into exactly how they wanted me to be but I was okay with that too. It bothered me a tiny bit but not enough to wanna conform.

Stefanie: I love that. I love when you said that it bothered me a little bit but not enough to conform. If you're gonna get anything outta this interview... right there. Cause I think we can feel uncomfortable. Feeling like we have to fit in. But is that discomfort worth compromising ourselves and stepping away from ourselves and abandoning ourselves? I love where you said, no, not enough to. That's great. I don't think we consider that enough, right?

Sallie: Yeah, and I don't know, I can just only contribute that to my upbringing. My grandfather was the one who did the dairy and there were so many times that he probably could have, should have, sold everything and gone and become a vet. That was his other option. But he loved what he did. He wasn't afraid of failure either. I've seen that growing up. I've seen my parents fail and hit hard times and how to just keep persevering through that to see your dream come to be and I think that I've definitely done that with the ice cream business cuz there's been days where I could just throw the towel in and say, forget it. I need to go get a different job. Talking financially also, I mean, everybody says it takes three to four years to get over a hump where you're making money and you can either sustain or you're gonna be no more and it took us, because we, we've jumped around from so many different locations. It's been a huge learning curve. But truly like we really only started paying ourselves in the last two years we've been doing this eight seasons. So it's been tough. I mean, to hold on to something that like you're doing all this work for and it's not financially providing yet has been difficult.

But again, I've seen my family members hold onto what they love and even when it gets rocky, if you really wanna do it, you're gonna push through it.

“It bothered me a tiny bit but not enough to wanna conform. ”

— Sallie

Stefanie: So holding that focus, right? Holding focus. Can I say that the very first time I ever met you, you had this little ice cream cart outside of the coffee shop and there was something about when I met you that very first time where I just was like, there's something about this woman. Where I just knew you were gonna be successful. I remember, you were talking about coming from another place and you were talking about creating the area over here that you've got now and I just remember feeling like she's going to get it, and when she does, she's gonna be incredibly successful. So when you opened up this location you were just almost successful straight out the gate. I just knew you just had it within you. I could feel it.

Sallie: ..and I love that. I mean, one thing I love about people too is energy and I'm trying to raise my children that way, but let your energy radiate off of you. For other people to feel, cuz this world would be pretty dull if you didn't have feelings.

Stefanie: I think there's something inside of you that I could just feel. You were holding on to the vision. You knew where you were going. You knew you were gonna end up there. I don't know if you in that moment knew that way. But I could feel energetically, I could feel it. So I want to ask you. How long you had to hold onto this vision before it started to finally start being successful?

Sallie: So six. Which was a long six years . I mean, it was, and it got frustrating at times.

I mean, because I had three babies within 15 months. We we had our first daughter and then when she was seven months old we found out we were pregnant. Then we found out month later, oh, there's two. So I mean, I had days in my first few years of this business were literally carrying one to three babies in car seats. Or two, like one on my hip, two car seats going in to make ice cream with a baby in a baby carrier. Up until 11 o'clock at night or back up at five to try to get the ice cream made to then get the shop opened and it was exhausting. I was a walking zombie for a few years and it got very frustrating doing it and not making, I don't wanna say not making a profit, we were sustaining our locations. But not really making money ourselves yet. But everyone we talked to in business just kept saying you just gotta push through it you gotta get over that hump. It took a couple of years longer than than we wanted it to.

But yeah, I would say a good six years to where it's like, okay. I think, and I'm not gonna lie, I think us coming to Madison was the saving grace for our business. I truly do because we were at a point up there. We hit some bumps in the road with zoning and just things like that that made us close a couple locations.

If we would've held on where we were pretty positive, we would've just shut the doors and either sold the business off or moved onto something else, because I'm not positive that we ever would've turned that curve or made it over that hump. But coming to Madison, it was like, just the right town to still be small town down home charm, but with the perfect amount of traffic flow and tourism to sustain what we do.

Since coming here, it was like, okay, I think we found our spot. After seven seasons, we finally found where this business is supposed to go. Or a really good place for it to let it grow. So I do feel like since we moved here, it's like we made it over that hump.

Stefanie: But you had to put so much in before the momentum started. I think when we start businesses, we think we want it to be instantaneous. All right. Especially when we've been employees or something we're used to that instant gratification of that paycheck. It's showing something to us.

Sallie: ...and in this society, I mean, everything you see on the internet . A lot of times to me, it's false illusion that everything's so perfect and happy and you can quit your job and be your own boss and you're gonna be this perfect Instagram something overnight and it's not like that.

Stefanie: Do you feel like you had to become more and more of yourself in order to get to where you are now? Did you feel like all those seasons were growing you in a way to be able to hold what you got now?

Sallie: Oh yeah. When I started this business. My mom and I started it together. I mean, my dad was kind of there and then all of a sudden wasn't and it was basically a mother daughter thing. Up until this point, we had managed all the locations together. So coming here, we came here by ourselves. We don't have any family here.

My parents are still four hours north. It's basically all on me. We found the spot and it was kind of like you're on your own. My parents have come down to help of course when we needed them to but I haven't had my mom there with me to tag team this location.

So yeah, if we would not have had all of the different shops in the time together to figure out how to manage a business I still don't think there would've been any way for me to come here and be successful doing this and manage it on my own. It would've been way too hard. I mean, I know that's part of what made this location specifically successful so quickly is we had it down.

Since 2015 each year opening a shop and getting all the product ready and knowing how to promote it. So that is previous knowledge. I mean, it definitely built me as a manager to be able to run this location.

Stefanie: What did you hold onto when it came to the vision even though those hard times? What was it that held you through?

Sallie: How much I love what we created. I mean, the few times that we talked about maybe we should just sell it or maybe we should just close the doors. We would say that and then I'd go. But it's so good! It's so unique. I love it... and I truly do. I feel like our brand, our logos, down to our color scheme, everything is so brandable, and we put so much time and effort into all of those little details that it, like, it kills me to let it go. That's my baby. I can't hurt my baby. It's like, I wanna see it flourish and at least sustain. I mean, we've poured so much time and energy of ourselves into it that that's what's made me hold on. I mean, that's what's kept me focused. Just how proud I am of how well everything has come together with a lot of intention.

Stefanie: Do you feel like it was a feeling within you where you just knew that if you kept going it was gonna produce something?

Sallie: Yeah. I do. I'm, like I said, a creative person but when I when I have a vision or want to do something I see it through. Down to like little ridiculous things that drives my family nuts. My mother would say I'm slightly OCD that way, but when I get on something, I cannot let it go until it's done or where I want it and maybe this isn't where I want it yet either because I have all these visions it could just keep getting better and better

Stefanie: A lot of people, when they're creating things or they have a business, sometimes have a lot of ideas and they go off in different directions. How do you keep all of those ideas from going and pulling you into different ways?

Sallie: That's a good question cuz I feel like a scatter brain all the time. Oh gosh, that's a good question. I don't, I think just the day to day tasks. We're so busy that it's always just one thing to the next. That's honestly what keeps me focused is taking things one step at a time. Maybe that's a good way to answer that. Just one thing at a time. My mom would laugh again at me because my mind goes in so many different directions.

I could be thinking about one thing and also five other things like at the same time, I'm one of those people and my brain normally functions that way. I can look at my husband and ask what are you thinking about? And he'll say, nothing.

Stefanie: And you're like, How do you do that?

Sallie: Yeah. How do I do that? I'm literally thinking of five different things in the same moment. It's so overwhelming. But I think that's also taught me about myself. I have to focus on one thing at a time, like at least physically doing that thing. Or, I will get derailed so it's picking one task and sticking to it. I could still have a lot of ideas in my head but it's just finding the one that's the priority at that moment.

Stefanie: The one that's pulling you more than others.

Sallie: Right.

Stefanie: Yeah, I think that's the key there. You can have a lot of eggs but not everyone of them is ready to hatch. So this is a woman in business series. What do you think of being a woman in business? How do you think that that's helped you?

Sallie: Oh man. There's been a lot of challenges. I'll say that. I mean, it has not been easy. How it's helped me with what we do, I really do feel like, the ice cream business is this happy, nurturing type environment and I do attribute that a lot to being a woman and especially mother even with my employees.

I think that's part of why we get such a happy work environment too. We nurture our employees. I have some, it's almost all of them right now. At the end of the night when we close, it's love you, love you, and it creates such a happy work environment. I don't know that most men would create that type of environment.

I also feel like as a woman and a mother, were always multitask. So that really helps keep everything spinning it's like this innate part of you. You have to multitask in this ice cream business. The way we do it with producing our own product cuz we make our own ice cream is there's a lot going on at the same time with inventory and ordering and restocking. Getting it down here, the transportation employees shifts being here to dip it. I mean, it's just nonstop and I think women overall are very good at that. But if you wanna talk about the challenges, I'll go into that. So for a while we had a shop in Rochester, Indiana that was our first shop and we had such a struggle. It was exhausting. That's probably what almost just made us close the doors. We loved our customers but that town was not quite ready for a business that didn't fit the mold of brick and mortar. This amount of square footage, it has to be in this zoning. Which I understand why cities have zoning, but at the same time, it was every time we turned around there was a fight to be had and they were making us go to another zoning meeting.

So for six years it was, we didn't know day to day if we were really gonna be able to operate and that got exhausting. But I remember at that timeframe there were some people who. Had nasty things to say about me and I just remember thinking, wow, I thought I handled myself so well in that meeting. Was I firm? Yes. Did I get a little aggressive in tone? Maybe yes. But I had control over myself. But I remember in those moments thinking, man, if I was a man right now, they wouldn't be calling me that name. They would be saying, man, he really sticks up for what he wants... and truly, I really believe that.

So there's this perception of when a woman in business wants something or sticks up for herself she I feel like most of the time is not taken as well and as seriously as a man would be if he said the same thing. So that's been hard, but at the same time, I'm gonna stick for myself and be strong for what I believe in cuz my daughters will see that. I'd rather them grow up being the same way than feel bad about people calling 'em and nasty name because they have a backbone. So that's been the biggest challenge. I haven't dealt with any of that here in Madison. It's been relatively wonderful operating here.

Stefanie: So it sounds like you've had to be very tenacious your whole life to keep being you. As we wrap this up, is there any advice you can give to somebody who is thinking about doing something like you're doing or having a business?

Sallie: Man, just stick to your vision. Ride it out as long as you can because even when you think that door's going to shut, there's probably gonna be another one that opens if you just keep going a little bit further. I've seen that with ourselves in this business many times. The other thing would be, take a step back away from it just to analyze to look at what you're doing and reassess where you're at because sometimes I think I've gotten so busy in the day to day that I start going this direction and I'm like, wait a minute. I don't wanna do that. But you get so busy in the day to day of business and sometimes you almost go to another direction that wasn't in your original plan. So stay in check with yourself, I guess, and take a step back and make sure that this is the vision that you had and this is the vision that you want for your life... and if it's not, it's okay not to do it. There's been times where I started selling coffee and baked goods and lunches at one of our shops because we felt like that's what people wanted us to do. Then I realized I didn't wanna run a full restaurant. What am I doing?

I don't wanna be there for 12 hours. I mean, sometimes 17 hours a day. I wanted to sell ice cream. And I know this is, people want more than that, but that's not what I wanna do. That's not the business I wanted... because you're in the day to day and you're listening to what other people want you to do. I think that's good advice even for myself is have check-ins with yourself to make sure that you're on track. But, don't give up too soon. Keep pushing for what that vision is.

Hold out longer than you think you need to. Because if we would've been listening to everybody else, we would've closed the doors four or five years ago and I'm glad we didn't. It was hard. It was hard to stay open, but we're in a really good place right now.

Stefanie: So you had to trust yourself to stay in your lane with what you wanted.

Sallie: That's a great way to say it, trust yourself because you know best. When I decided to let go of what everybody else wanted and how they wanted me to run my business. I've been the happiest because I know I'm doing it my way and my vision is holding true.